D15B7 Smoking and Tapping? (HELP, teal_dx!!!)

D15, D16, D17 and Mini-Me swaps
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D15B7 Smoking and Tapping? (HELP, teal_dx!!!)

By Loaf31
- Sun Apr 20, 2014 11:46 pm #344816 So my parents bought this 1993 Civic DX EG8 with a D15B7 at the end of 1992 and drove it regularly, then for the last 7 years, it's been sitting un-driven until I started working on it about a year ago.
Car has about 162K miles on it. It started smoking and tapping a lot, so we replaced the head gasket, water pump, and timing belt as well as reset the timing. Didn't really help at all.
Pulled the head and redid the head gasket again. Didn't really help. It's blowing a LOT of white-blueish smoke. and there's a slight tapping that doesn't go away even in the 2.5K to 4K rev range.
My father thinks it might be an oil problem, my brother thinks it's a timing issue, and I think the piston rings need to be replaced. teal_dx seems to know what he's talking about, so I'd like his input.
Need a buddy to help me get down to the nitty-gritty and figure this out with me.
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By teal_dx
- Mon Apr 21, 2014 2:34 am #344817 Before you pull the head again, do a compression test :thumb:

Did it ever overheat?

It started tapping/smoking as soon as you started driving it after sitting for 7 years?
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By Loaf31
- Mon Apr 21, 2014 2:47 am #344819 Did a compression test.

From Dizzy to Timing Belt

1st Cyl: 120 PSI
2nd Cyl: 145 PSI
3rd Cyl: 145 PSI
4th Cyl: 105 PSI

The car wasn't at running temperature though.

It hasn't overheated since i've been working on it.
We had the head milled and rebuilt about a month ago.

It didn't put out a lot of smoke until after I did my full exhaust setup which was about 6 or 7 months ago.
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By teal_dx
- Mon Apr 21, 2014 2:57 am #344821 Alright those #'s are low even for a engine that isn't warmed up. (cyl 1 & 4)

Next thing to try is remove the spark plug on all 4 cyls and pot a little bit of motor oil (just a cap full should do it) into each cyl. Put the plugs back & do another compression test, engine cold again since it was cold when you did the last test. If the #'s are better, then it is your rings. The oil in the cyl will help seal the piston rings and the cylinder walls.

Also, is the smoke white with a blueish tint? If so and it smells like burning oil, then that also points to rings. Or valve seals, but lets focus on the rings for now. :thumb:
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By Loaf31
- Mon Apr 21, 2014 2:59 am #344822 I did the oil thing before, but the compression tester I used when I did that test was broken.
We have a new one, so I'll do that in the morning.

The smoke is blue-ish and does smell a bit like oil.
It can't be anything valve related because my mechanic completely rebuilt the head about a month ago.

Is there any way the timing could be a cause of this all?

But I think it's the rings.
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By teal_dx
- Mon Apr 21, 2014 3:25 am #344826 Mechanical timing being of can bend valves from hitting the pistons and run crappy in general due to bad compression.
Ignition timing can also run really crappy and pre-detonate or ping which can cause damage over time.
But since your head is fresh, I'm betting it's the rings for sure.
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By Loaf31
- Mon Apr 21, 2014 3:34 am #344827 I read that if you have low numbers on one of the cylinders, it can be a worn exhaust valve?
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By teal_dx
- Mon Apr 21, 2014 12:54 pm #344841 It could also be a bad valve. But you have a fresh head so I'd bet on rings. Sucks because those are low miles to be burning a lot of oil from bad rings. Letting an engine sit for years without being lubricated isn't ideal though.
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By Loaf31
- Mon Apr 21, 2014 3:49 pm #344846 So I'm assuming that because it sat so long, the oil on the rings dried up and cracked them or something like that?
I may just do an engine swap instead of replacing the rings.
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By m578elb
- Mon Apr 21, 2014 4:50 pm #344849 Hi, the taping noise could be from the tappets but the noise should go after 4k or less , it could be a valve which is not closing proper. The blue smoke are piston rings . Open it and have a look, or throw a z6 in there.
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By teal_dx
- Mon Apr 21, 2014 5:11 pm #344850 Yes it could be from sitting. Could also be from a hard start after sitting so long. The cyl walls may have excess wear. If a motor has sat for a vary long time, it is a good idea to pull the plugs and put a little oil in each cyl then crank by hand to get things lubed up. Also doesnt hurt to spray a little oil in if you're going to put the car away for a very long time.
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By Loaf31
- Mon Apr 21, 2014 9:02 pm #344857 Okay, new compression results.

From Dizzy to Timing belt:

1) 125 psi before oil, 140 after oil.
2) 140 psi before oil, 152 after oil.
3) 150 psi before oil, 165 after oil.
4) 105 psi before oil, 125 after oil.

How difficult is it to change the rings ourselves?
Easier or harder than doing a swap?
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By teal_dx
- Tue Apr 22, 2014 1:10 am #344873 I suggest you buy a repair manual. There's a lot of steps. You'll need to remove the motor from the car. From there, pull the pan off and unbolt the rod bolts, push the piston through the top. Mark the order and direction of EVERYTHING you remove so it goes back together exactly the same.
It IS possible to do it with the motor in the car if you're not able to remove it. Easier if the motor is out, though.
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By Loaf31
- Tue Apr 22, 2014 1:56 am #344874 After researching about how it's not so hard, my father and I want to try and replace the piston rings ourselves. We would be replacing them while the engine is in the car, since we have no way of removing it. We have a Haynes manual and will be consulting it often. Isn't it as simple as unbolting the bottom of the piston from the crankshaft and pushing it through the cylinder?
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