- Wed Dec 18, 2013 9:41 am
#340251
Hey everyone,
So, first of, I apologize if this has been asked before, but I've been searching for hours and can't find a specific answer to my question. There are a lot of general write ups, and even a few posts complaining about the timing marks being confusing, but I haven't really found a solid answer for this. Secondly, I'm not new to doing timing belts, I've probably done hundreds of them mainly on Porsches, Mercedes, and other German cars. Which is why it's so frustrating that a Honda has me stumped. I feel like this is so simple it's done by thousands of people daily, but this belt is just kicking my butt.
Ok, so It's a 1994 Civic DX with a D15B7. Not that I think it matters, but it has just shy of 300k miles. Set it to TDC before pulling it all apart. Don't get me started on the pulley bolt, but anyway... got the old timing belt off, and replaced the water pump, but I am now very confused about the timing for the new belt.
Before putting the new timing belt on I decided to confirm the timing was correct. To me it was not correct. I say that because when the TDC mark on the pulley was lined up the 7 o'clock timing line on the camshaft pulley wasn't lined up with the arrow. I also noticed the crank timing belt sprocket's notch wasn't lined up with the arrow on the engine once the lower timing cover was out of the way.
The timing marks on the cam sprocket at 3, 9, and 7 had been bothering me so I asked a friend who's a tech at Honda which is the most important to line up since it seems to me eyeballing it that if 7 is lined up 3 and 9 can't possibly be lined up. I think this diagram even confirms it: http://repairguide.autozone.com/znetrgs ... 0617db.gif He said that the 7 o'clock was the most important mark and to make sure that lines up, so that's what I've been basing this off of.
As far as I can tell the cam timing marks cannot all be lined up, you either line up 3 and 9, or 7. Is this correct or not? It's further confusing because of the very poor wording of the instructions that came with the new belt tensioner. It seems to imply that the D15Z1 is the only motor that should use the 7 o'clock timing mark and the others should use 9 and 3. At the same time it seems to say that and that none of them should use the 7 O'clock mark. Is that correct that only the Z1 uses the 7 O'clock mark?
Next, the crank sprocket and pulley marks don't line up. There's an arrow on the motor that you're supposed to line up the crank sprocket notches (If the key is roughly 12 oclock, the notch is roughly 1 or 2 oclock).
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8EgHJ ... sp=sharing
After several attempts to get the 7 o'clock cam mark and 2'oclock crank marks perfect with the new belt, I finally said screw it, it's close enough I can't get it any closer... when the 7 o'clock cam mark was dead on the 2 o'clock crank mark was off by maybe a degree or two. So I followed the rest of the tensioner instructions, set it back to TDC and put the lower timing cover and crank pulley back on (no bolt). The timing mark on the crank pulley is WAAAAY off! The timing mark on the lower timing cover now lines up about 1/2 way between the TDC mark and the ignition timing marks on the pulley when the 7 o'clock cam marking is lined up, BUT the crank sprocket it almost dead on.
How can the two timing marks be so wildly far off? Which do you follow the pulley marks or the sprocket marks? I also confirmed this is not a visual trick because of the larger diameter of the crank pulley vs. timing belt sprocket. If you hold them up to each other and align the key slots, the timing marks are not even close to lining up. This also begs the question that if you're following the pulley marks, how can you possibly install the belt and be sure it's timed perfectly and nothing has moved since the pulley is off? That seems like the whole point of having a sprocket timing mark and a corresponding mark on the motor.
I realize this is an old car with a lot of miles, and maybe some of the parts aren't stock, but this really doesn't make sense to me. I would seriously appreciate an answer as to A. which timing marks you should follow for the cam: 7 or 3 and 9 and the crank: the sprocket or the pulley and B. Which cam and crank marks should be lined up corresponding to each other.
Thanks in advance.
So, first of, I apologize if this has been asked before, but I've been searching for hours and can't find a specific answer to my question. There are a lot of general write ups, and even a few posts complaining about the timing marks being confusing, but I haven't really found a solid answer for this. Secondly, I'm not new to doing timing belts, I've probably done hundreds of them mainly on Porsches, Mercedes, and other German cars. Which is why it's so frustrating that a Honda has me stumped. I feel like this is so simple it's done by thousands of people daily, but this belt is just kicking my butt.
Ok, so It's a 1994 Civic DX with a D15B7. Not that I think it matters, but it has just shy of 300k miles. Set it to TDC before pulling it all apart. Don't get me started on the pulley bolt, but anyway... got the old timing belt off, and replaced the water pump, but I am now very confused about the timing for the new belt.
Before putting the new timing belt on I decided to confirm the timing was correct. To me it was not correct. I say that because when the TDC mark on the pulley was lined up the 7 o'clock timing line on the camshaft pulley wasn't lined up with the arrow. I also noticed the crank timing belt sprocket's notch wasn't lined up with the arrow on the engine once the lower timing cover was out of the way.
The timing marks on the cam sprocket at 3, 9, and 7 had been bothering me so I asked a friend who's a tech at Honda which is the most important to line up since it seems to me eyeballing it that if 7 is lined up 3 and 9 can't possibly be lined up. I think this diagram even confirms it: http://repairguide.autozone.com/znetrgs ... 0617db.gif He said that the 7 o'clock was the most important mark and to make sure that lines up, so that's what I've been basing this off of.
As far as I can tell the cam timing marks cannot all be lined up, you either line up 3 and 9, or 7. Is this correct or not? It's further confusing because of the very poor wording of the instructions that came with the new belt tensioner. It seems to imply that the D15Z1 is the only motor that should use the 7 o'clock timing mark and the others should use 9 and 3. At the same time it seems to say that and that none of them should use the 7 O'clock mark. Is that correct that only the Z1 uses the 7 O'clock mark?
Next, the crank sprocket and pulley marks don't line up. There's an arrow on the motor that you're supposed to line up the crank sprocket notches (If the key is roughly 12 oclock, the notch is roughly 1 or 2 oclock).
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8EgHJ ... sp=sharing
After several attempts to get the 7 o'clock cam mark and 2'oclock crank marks perfect with the new belt, I finally said screw it, it's close enough I can't get it any closer... when the 7 o'clock cam mark was dead on the 2 o'clock crank mark was off by maybe a degree or two. So I followed the rest of the tensioner instructions, set it back to TDC and put the lower timing cover and crank pulley back on (no bolt). The timing mark on the crank pulley is WAAAAY off! The timing mark on the lower timing cover now lines up about 1/2 way between the TDC mark and the ignition timing marks on the pulley when the 7 o'clock cam marking is lined up, BUT the crank sprocket it almost dead on.
How can the two timing marks be so wildly far off? Which do you follow the pulley marks or the sprocket marks? I also confirmed this is not a visual trick because of the larger diameter of the crank pulley vs. timing belt sprocket. If you hold them up to each other and align the key slots, the timing marks are not even close to lining up. This also begs the question that if you're following the pulley marks, how can you possibly install the belt and be sure it's timed perfectly and nothing has moved since the pulley is off? That seems like the whole point of having a sprocket timing mark and a corresponding mark on the motor.
I realize this is an old car with a lot of miles, and maybe some of the parts aren't stock, but this really doesn't make sense to me. I would seriously appreciate an answer as to A. which timing marks you should follow for the cam: 7 or 3 and 9 and the crank: the sprocket or the pulley and B. Which cam and crank marks should be lined up corresponding to each other.
Thanks in advance.
