Civic-EG.com Forum 3.3.1

- Wed Mar 26, 2008 7:37 pm #47854 Well, I'm on a budget, and I've had my eye on several short shifters. I've seen some civics with them installed, and IMO they aren't short enough. This coming Sunday I'm dropping it out of the car, and monday during lunch, my friend and I are taking a trip to the shop class to make ourselves a DIY short throw shifter. I'll post some Pictures of the process, but I would like a quick walk through in removing the shifter from the car. any tips/pics would be appreciated. who hard is it? could someone with a basic knowledge of cars (me) pull it off without much difficulty?

- Sat Mar 29, 2008 3:49 pm #48197 Saw of the threaded top, saw of about 45mm of the shifter.

The shifter is hollow, you'll have to drill a hole in the threaded top.

Tap some thread in both ends, saw the head of a bolt, and tighten the two together (I used M6 thread).

- Sun Mar 30, 2008 4:29 am #48304 Thanks for the help. I'm still not sure how you did your shifter though. you lost me at the

you'll have to drill a hole in the threaded top. Tap some thread in both ends, saw the head of a bolt, and tighten the two together (I used M6 thread).

part.

and also for anyone who may not know how to install/remove their shifter, I found a really good walkthrough HERE

- Sun Mar 30, 2008 4:57 am #48308 is THIS what you meant?





couldn't we just weld it? BTW, we're doing this TOMMOROW instead of monday. so any help I could get SOON would be MOST welcome. thank you guys alot.

- Sun Mar 30, 2008 9:01 am #48315 Just so you know DIY short shifters are not effective. It is a common misconception that simply making the shifter shorter is going to decrease your shift length and reduce your shift times. In fact this sawing your shifter will actually harm your shift times and possibly your car. A real short shifter works by moving the pivot point on your shifter higher on the shifter. This reduces the distance of your shift throw, which in turn creates a faster shift. If you saw off your shifter you are still pivoting from the same point, so your shift distance is actually the same, but you have even less leverage now to shift to that point, thus making your shift slightly more difficult and possibly damaging due to mis shifts and more stress. Here is a diagram so you can see what I mean.

http://www.nolimitmotorsport.com/0/bm-shift-throw.gif


So spend the 50 bucks and pick up a b&m shifter. Money well spent and not very expensive.

- Sun Mar 30, 2008 4:41 pm #48336

Just so you know DIY short shifters are not effective. It is a common misconception that simply making the shifter shorter is going to decrease your shift length and reduce your shift times. In fact this sawing your shifter will actually harm your shift times and possibly your car. A real short shifter works by moving the pivot point on your shifter higher on the shifter. This reduces the distance of your shift throw, which in turn creates a faster shift. If you saw off your shifter you are still pivoting from the same point, so your shift distance is actually the same, but you have even less leverage now to shift to that point, thus making your shift slightly more difficult and possibly damaging due to mis shifts and more stress. Here is a diagram so you can see what I mean.

http://www.nolimitmotorsport.com/0/bm-shift-throw.gif


So spend the 50 bucks and pick up a b&m shifter. Money well spent and not very expensive.

X2 Lol i was just about to say the same.

- Tue Apr 01, 2008 2:09 pm #48619 so. B&M?

how low do they sit? I'm not necessarily looking for performance, Just a super sweet low sitting shifter.

- Wed Apr 23, 2008 1:12 pm #52216 Is this going to be riced or what? I can't honestly think of another reason than having something for looks over functionality. Kinda seems rice and defeats the purpose if you ask me.

- Wed Apr 23, 2008 3:24 pm #52230 IMO a shortened stock shifter should be doing exactly the same thing as an after market one.
The way I see it is this, correct me (in a decent way, we're not on H-T) if I'm wrong;


Obviously, X is the point were it pivots.
No matter what shifter you have, the shift linkage needs to travel the exact same distance to shift.
All you change by putting in a 'short shifter' is the leverage, Y is stock, Z is from a short shifter.
Simply by drawing a line through the connection point for the linkage and the pivoting point, you can see the difference in travel between the short (A) and stock (B) shifters.
It's very clear to see that a higher pivot point reduces travel, and I agree that this reduces travel and might reduce time needed for shifting (and prob. also reduce your syncro rings to rubble, that aside).

So now my theory on this one;

As I see it, when not altering travel (Z) and the pivoting point (X), you can reduce travel by lowering the top, as you can see in my very crude image.
I did this, and not only makes the shifter sit lower, it also reduces travel.
A = stock height, B = shortened.

IMO it's exáctly the same as a short shifter like the B&M one, only shorter on both ends of the pivot joint.

I used to have an aluminum short shifter, and I had to force it into gear every time, even when using Honda MTF3.
But with the shortened stock shifter, it's become nice and soft, no mis shifts or whatever like hkspowers said.
The thing was also touching my midpipe making an annoying and loud rattling sound 80% of the time while driving.

- Wed Apr 23, 2008 5:54 pm #52253 I just bought a Mugen replica short shifter and I love it.


I can REALLY tell the difference in the throws. much quicker.


I would like it to LOOK shorter, but eh.

- Wed Apr 23, 2008 6:02 pm #52254

Is this going to be riced or what? I can't honestly think of another reason than having something for looks over functionality. Kinda seems rice and defeats the purpose if you ask me.

Trust me. I'm not rice. I don't go out and buy cheap ass ebay body kits, nor do I paint racing stripes down the center of my car. I don't weld on tips or slap on 2 feet high aluminum spoilers and I most certainly do not take kindly to those kinds of insinuations.

- Wed Apr 23, 2008 6:56 pm #52266 I agree that a dumped shifter with a depressed boot looks the sex.

It's interesting to hear both sides of the argument though, as it looks like there are actually some disadvantages to have a shorter shifter.

- Wed Apr 23, 2008 7:19 pm #52271 Hate to burst your bubble bit I didn't insinuate anything. I didn't say anything about anyone being rice I said the idea of it being for looks over functionality seemed rice. Read a bit more carefully.

And by cutting the handle shorter you are not changing anything. The shorter shift is an illusion, the shift linkage and everything still moves the same distance. the only thing that has changed is your hand sits lower. Clearly you can see by the images above a shifter with a higher pivot point reduces travel.

- Thu Apr 24, 2008 12:40 am #52335

And by cutting the handle shorter you are not changing anything. The shorter shift is an illusion, the shift linkage and everything still moves the same distance. the only thing that has changed is your hand sits lower. Clearly you can see by the images above a shifter with a higher pivot point reduces travel.

How is it an illusion?
The reduced throw is measurable, so I can prove it.
You're saying that with a lowered handle the shift linkage moves the same distance as with a normal stock one, and that is true.
But what I get from your post is that you're saying a shortshifter will actually change that distance, wich is not true, it's not even possible;
increasing travel will push the linkage through the tranny or pull it out, decreasing it means you're not getting it in gear with a shorter throw EVER.

I have to admit that a shortened stock won't reduce throw as much as a regular aftermarket would, but compared to stock, it does considerably.

I'll explain it again, but differently;
When you look at pic number 1, this is the situation;
shortened stock and short shifter both have the same distance to travel to get into gear.
Distances Y and Z are exactly the same, as is the position of pivoting point X.
You can clearly see that lowering the connection point of the shifter to the linkage (by putting the pivoting point higher up the shifter) reduces throw compared to stock, and this is how a regular aftermarket shortshifter works, to here, we agree on each other.

In pic number 2 you can see a stock shifter, and this is were we disagree.
As you can see, distance B is shorter then distance A.
Pivoting point X is not going anywhere and distance Z is not changing either.
Effectively, lowering the handle reduces throw, but requires more of your strength to move the linkage, as the leverage has decreased.
The regular aftermarket shortshifter decreases leverage as well, by placing the linkage lower under the pivoting point and slightly lowering the handle.
So a shortened stock shifter does EXACTLY the same thing as a 50 or more dollar regular aftermarket shortshifter, only it's smaller and way cheaper.
Plus I prefer steel over aluminum for shifters.

I'd like to know how you think about what I just said, does it make sense, or am I wrong.
If I am wrong, let me know were I slipped up, because as I see it now, I'm 100% sure I'm right.

- Thu Apr 24, 2008 6:06 am #52385 Sorry it took so long to respond, busy at work lately (.^__^.)

Anyway Stefan, I see where you would think the DIY shifter is achieving the same goal as an aftermarket shifter, especially with your diagrams. They look the same but I am afraid that your diagram is just not accurate enough to notice. So I quickly threw together a 3d diagram to put this to rest. In my diagram I modeled all of the shifters with the exact same specs. I then raised the pivot on one (the real Short Shifter) , cut the top off of another (DIY short Shifter), and left the stock one unaltered. They were then all rotated 30° and as you can see the results are clear. The stock shifter and the DIY shifter have the same distance of travel, where the Aftermarket shifter has a considerable difference of travel length, even though all of them were rotated the exact same amount.

http://www.little3d.com/randompage.html

right click and save as the shifter movie

Hope this helps to clarify things.