Civic-EG.com Forum 3.3.1

- Wed Oct 06, 2010 8:10 am #217096 im not trying to cause trouble here guys i was just wanting to get a lil extra power out of my motor without having to build vtec and buy lsvtec kits and tryinhg to make it run reliable. and also when i was saying i didnt have moneyt for a turbo kit i was reffering to good turbo kits such as greddy hks etc. but i do like what you said about using the jdm head. thats probably the route i will take and buy each part along the way when i have enough money.

- Wed Oct 06, 2010 8:46 am #217098 From experience its better to build all at once then build piece by piece, but its on you bro whatever you do, good luck as for mine and AutoX debate its no worries im not argueing just trying to prove my point.

- Wed Oct 06, 2010 10:50 am #217103

From experience its better to build all at once then build piece by piece, but its on you bro whatever you do, good luck as for mine and AutoX debate its no worries im not argueing just trying to prove my point.

Agreed if you are going to go piece by piece it's best to acquire all the pieces and do it all at once than to add each piece individually, especially if you are going to do a built motor.

I wasn't saying you were wrong ... and I'm also aware that you can get more horsepower from a simple turbo build than from a simple N/A build (which is why I went turbo D, instead of N/A B).

Seriously OP don't worry you haven't caused any trouble, no one here is getting there panties all bunched up.

Anyway ... yes you can get 200 hp more easily with a turbo. That wasn't the point I was arguing I was simply pointing the OP in the right direction for a 200+ whp N/A Non-VTEC build (since I have done a lot of leg work on this set up already). The setup I mentioned can be run on 92 octane 11:1 is easy on 92 (and with that setup can get you into the 200 whp range) ... when you start getting into the 13+:1 it get's problematic. There's at least one person I know of who has managed to run 12.5:1 on 87 octane (with no detonation). So it's all in the ability of your tuner.

I know that seems unbelievable so here's a link to prove it.

I totally agree this is a VERY expensive setup, but the OP asked for N/A power ... so I pointed him in that direction.

OP if you want cheap power ... go FI. If you want something fun and reliable see if you can't find a B series supercharger kit (I think you can fine the JRSC units still). Or get a smallish turbo charger (like a bigger t3, or a t28) that will spool quickly, those are a lot of fun on the street.

Ultimately it's up to you, how much patience you have (i.e. how long you are willing to save to get the parts before you NEED the power), how confident you are in your tuner (or your own tuning abilities) and your preference of power adder.

Straight lines are for sissies.

- Wed Oct 06, 2010 4:25 pm #217143

I remember doing research for a build like this ... 200 whp is easily doable on stock bore. You have to be careful boring the b20 because the cylinder walls start getting really thin at which point the cylinder pressure can start causing problems ... my .02 ... leave the bore alone.

Anyway my build plan was to (first) try to source a p8r head. This head came on a few JDM b20s, specifically the ones found in the honda Orthia. Anyway the reason for choosing this head is that it has 1mm oversized intake valves (when compared to the p75 head found on the USDM b20). That is the only difference between the p8r and the p75 internally they are the same and so can use any aftermarket part that will fit in the LS/B20 head (if you want aftermarket intake valves I believe you have to get some for a prelude, but it's been a while). Moving right along ... you will also want to find a Type-R intake, and a good quality header. To top off this build I was going to run 11 - 11.5:1 CR and the crower 404 (3/4 race) cams. Pair this with a b16 or GSR tranny and you've got yourself a barrel of fun ... and 200+ to the wheels (you'll also need some 310cc+ injectors IIRC).

I found one or two dynos of similar setups and one what putting down 210 whp on a shitty tune ... running pig rich. So with that setup you should be able to make some good numbers.

Good Idea here. Though the valve are stock honda valves found in the VTEC heads. The combustion chamber is also bigger on the P8R head. It was made for the 84mm bore of the B20, unlike the P75 head. The Type R Intake manifold will not bolt on to the head, instead get a skunk2/blox manifold for the B18b/B20z motors. The headers are generic, just dont get one designed for a B16a, it will be too short. For pistons, RS machine makes some ITR copies in 84mm that will work wonders for raising compression for the Crower 403/404/405s. Though I wouldnt suggest the 405s for daily use. COmbine all that with some good sized injectores and a tune and you will be set.

I have a B20z with a P8R head mated to a B16a tranny. This will be the route I go when the time comes to rebuild the motor.

1986 Nissan 300zx
1980 Kawasaki KZ650
2014 Kawasaki Ninja 300

- Thu Oct 07, 2010 12:40 am #217214 I didn't realize the Type R IM didn't bolt up. Does it bolt up to the p75 head? Maybe that's what I'm remembering, because that was a very common suggestion from people when I was doing my research. I may still have to do this engine build at some point I really like it. But that's another project for another car. Or maybe just a later project for this car. Will the stock rods on the B20 hold up? (I'm coming from a being inundated with D series issues, which are weak rods)

Last edited by AutoXCivic on Thu Oct 07, 2010 12:42 am, edited 1 time in total.

Straight lines are for sissies.

- Thu Oct 07, 2010 12:42 am #217215 Im really pumped to do this build. Im going to post pictures and step by step progression when i do my build

- Thu Oct 07, 2010 6:39 pm #217352

I didn't realize the Type R IM didn't bolt up. Does it bolt up to the p75 head? Maybe that's what I'm remembering, because that was a very common suggestion from people when I was doing my research. I may still have to do this engine build at some point I really like it. But that's another project for another car. Or maybe just a later project for this car. Will the stock rods on the B20 hold up? (I'm coming from a being inundated with D series issues, which are weak rods)

ITR manifold will not bolt on to any NON vtec motor. It will only bolt on to B16a/B17a/ITR heads. As they are all the same head basically.

1986 Nissan 300zx
1980 Kawasaki KZ650
2014 Kawasaki Ninja 300

- Thu Oct 07, 2010 11:48 pm #217382 Hmmm, must have been honda-tech posts I was reading then. Good to know. Future build developing in my head.

Straight lines are for sissies.

- Fri Oct 08, 2010 5:37 am #217448 could i just buy 1mm larger valves instead of just buying the whole head?

- Fri Oct 08, 2010 7:14 am #217469 intake valve that is

- Fri Oct 08, 2010 11:26 am #217485

could i just buy 1mm larger valves instead of just buying the whole head?

No ... the valves are 1mm oversize because the intake ports are 1mm oversize. To use 1mm larger valves in the p75 (LS) head you'd have to get the head machined to accept them ... cheaper to find a p8r head. There's actually one on E-bay right now ... at least it was there last night when I was poking around.

Straight lines are for sissies.

- Fri Oct 08, 2010 6:14 pm #217533

could i just buy 1mm larger valves instead of just buying the whole head?

No ... the valves are 1mm oversize because the intake ports are 1mm oversize. To use 1mm larger valves in the p75 (LS) head you'd have to get the head machined to accept them ... cheaper to find a p8r head. There's actually one on E-bay right now ... at least it was there last night when I was poking around.

33mm intake and 28mm exhaust.

1986 Nissan 300zx
1980 Kawasaki KZ650
2014 Kawasaki Ninja 300

- Fri Oct 08, 2010 7:31 pm #217549 okay that def makes sense. yeah i found a pretty good looking one on there for something like 250

- Sat Oct 09, 2010 5:48 am #217653 The head alone for 250?

1986 Nissan 300zx
1980 Kawasaki KZ650
2014 Kawasaki Ninja 300

- Sat Oct 09, 2010 7:10 am #217657 yeah it was a complete head for 250. is that bad?