- Wed Feb 16, 2011 9:58 am
#238765
I credit this to askmehelpdesk.com. I have had the crank but no start issue with my EJ2 D15B7 and this seems to cover everything. With our engines becoming older this problem is becoming more and more common so this thread should help a lot of people out I hope, rather than posting the same problem threads over and over. STICKY!? 
Honda Civic Ignition System Troubleshooting: 5 Basic Tests
Before performing the tests below, remove and fully charge the battery, clean battery terminals, and clean cable connections. Many people incorrectly assume their battery is good, because the horn, radio, dash lights, and head lights work.
A summary of the tests that should be followed, if you are experiencing a "crank but won't start situation," are:
1. Check Engine Light (CEL) Tests. If the CEL does not go out (i.e., stays on), most Civics will not spark and the fuel pump will not run (I'm not sure how true that part is; as far as I know it ISNT the case but someone else can chime in on that). Therefore, all efforts should first be directed to correcting the problem(s) that prevent you from being able to answer "Yes" to the three basic diagnostic questions below:
a. Turning the ignition switch to ON (Position II), not START, does the CEL come on and then go off after 2 seconds? If not, the problem is with the ACG (ALT) (S) 15 amp fuse, in the under dash fuse/relay box; ECM (perform the K-Test, below); main relay; or the ignition switch. Perform tests in that order.
The K-Test: Remove the MAP Sensor connector and turn the ignition switch to ON (Position II). Using a multimeter, check for 5 volts going between the MAP Sensor connector's reference wire (+) and ground. As you look at the connector, this is the socket on the right. Really press the black test lead into a cleaned main ECM ground on the thermostat housing. If the voltage is low, it’s probably indicating ECM failure. Most failed ECMs will record a fraction of a volt. To me, the K-Test is simple, elegant, and accurate. Many Hondas parked for several years are now back on the road. "The K-Test creates massive value, by providing a low cost solution where one did not previously exist."--TxGM
b. When the CEL goes out, do you hear and/or feel the Main Relay "click"? If not, repair or replace the Main Relay.
c. During the 2 second interval that the CEL is on, do you hear the fuel pump in the gas tank run? If not, check that the fuel pump works by jumping terminals 5 and 7 on the main relay connector and then turning the ignition switch to ON.
2. Fuse Tests. Check all under hood and under dash fuses with a test light or multimeter:
Using a test light or multimeter is faster, more accurate, and eliminates the possibility of replacing a fuse in the wrong slot. This is easy to do in the dark and cramped location of most under dash fuse boxes.
3. Diagnostic Trouble Code (DTC) Test. Jump the 2-P Service Check Connector with a paper clip, turn the ignition switch to ON (Position II), and read DTCs, if any, on OBD-I cars. On OBD-II cars (1996 and later), attach a code reader to the data link connector, located under the dash.
4. Spark Tests. Perform the standard spark test; i.e., remove a spark plug wire and attach it to a properly gapped spark plug, touch the plug to a convenient ground, and observe the spark, while someone cranks the engine. Look for a good, solid spark. It's preferable to use a calibrated ignition tester, such as KD Tools No. 2756. Do this for each plug. If none of the plugs spark:
a. Tachometer Test. Disconnect tachometer wire (if equipped). A shorted tachometer can prevent the vehicle from starting. The blue wire going to the Ignition Control Module (Ignitor) should be unfastened. Try starting the car again. If it starts, the problem is with the tachometer. If it still doesn't start:
b. Power to Distributor Test. Turn ignition OFF. Disconnect the 2-P connector from the distributor. Turn the ignition switch ON. Measure voltage between BLK/YEL (+) terminal and body ground. There should be 12+ volts read. If not, repair open in BLK/YEL wire between the 2-P connector and ignition switch.
c. Ignition Control Module (ICM) or Igniter Test. Several characteristics of a bad igniter are no spark (dead engine); fluctuating rpm; engine suddenly dying without warning, especially when hot; and engine not starting when hot. I place little faith in Honda's standard ICM test below:
1. Remove distributor cap, rotor, and leak cover.
2. Disconnect the BLK/YEL, WHT/BLU, YEL/GRN, and BLU wires from the ICM.
3. Turn the ignition switch ON. Check for voltage between the BLK/YEL wire and body ground. There should be battery voltage. If there is no voltage, check the BLK/YEL wire between the ignition switch and the ICM. If there is voltage, go to step 4.
4. Turn ignition switch ON. Check for voltage between the WHT/BLU wire and body ground. There should be battery voltage. If there is no battery voltage, check the ignition coil and the WHT/BLU wire between the ignition coil and the ICM. If there is battery voltage, go to step 5.
5. Check the YEL/GRN wire between the ECM and the ICM.
6. Check the BLU wire between the tachometer and the ICM.
7. If all test are normal, replace the ICM.
Conceptually, the ICM is a large output transistor (switch) controlling current through the primary coil. ICMs replace points and condenser in older vehicles. In the primary coil, current builds to 5 to 12 amps, generating lots of heat (due to inductance). Then, the ECM controls when the ICM "switches off" current to the primary coil, causing amperage to go to zero. When this happens, 12 to 14 volts in the primary coil is "stepped-up" to 30,000 volts in the secondary coil. This process creates a type of alternating current required for the coil (step-up transformer) to work. In a properly working ICM, timing is precisely when needed to fire each spark plug.
d. Coil Test. Similarly, I'm not a fan of Honda's coil test below.
1. Remove the two screws to disconnect the BLK/YEL and WHT/BLU wires from terminals A (+) and B (-), respectively.
2. Measure resistance (Ω ohms) between the terminals. Replace coil if the resistance is not within specifications. Primary Winding Resistance, between A (+) and B (-) terminals, should be 0.6 to 0.8 ohms. Secondary Winding Resistance, between A (+) and secondary winding terminal, should be 12.8 to 19.2 k-ohms. The secondary winding terminal is where the high voltage comes out.
Autozone will often test igniters on a Well's machine for free--I don't place much faith in the results. Our experience, at AMHD, is if it fails the test, it's bad. If it passes, it may or may not work properly.
EXAMPLE: Diagnosing an Engine That Cranks but Won’t Start
Check for spark at the plugs. If none, check for spark at the coil, after removing the distributor cap, rotor, and leak cover. Ground the test light clip and check for spark from the coil, as an assistant turns the ignition switch to Start. If the coil works, there should be a spark between the spring on the coil and the test light, as the probe is brought in the proximity of the spring. You now have spark at the coil and no spark at the plugs; therefore, replace the rotor and distributor cap, since one or both may be shorting out.
If there’s no spark from the coil, check the igniter with the test light. Take a jumper wire, with alligator clips on each end, and ground out the coil spring. Touch the test light probe to the negative terminal on the coil, as your assistant turns the ignition switch to Start. If the igniter is good, the test light should blink on and off. If the test light does not blink on and off, replace the igniter. Should the coil still not spark, after replacing the igniter, replace the coil.
In real life, everything can check out but the engine can still die on you, once it gets hot and the igniter and/or coil start to break down under load. That’s why I’m not a real fan of testing igniters and coils. This diagnostic process may keep you from just throwing parts at the problem—just be aware of its limitations.
Bottom Line: ICMs and coils really take a beating in Hondas.
5. Fuel Test. For the fuel injectors to work properly, the fuel rail must receive fuel at the proper flow and pressure. To test fuel pump pressure:
a. Disconnect negative battery cable.
b. Remove gas cap, in order to depressurize the system.
c. Remove the 6 mm service bolt at the fuel filter, while holding the banjo bolt with another wrench.
d. Place shop towel over the service bolt.
e. Loosen the service bolt one complete turn, to depressurize the fuel filter.
f. Install fuel pressure gauge and check for 40 to 47 psi. If engine will not start, turn the ignition switch on, wait for two seconds, turn it off, then back on again and read the fuel pressure. If pressure is low, check for a clogged fuel filter, faulty fuel pressure regulator, or leakage in the fuel hoses or pipes. As a last resort, replace the fuel pump.
SUMMARY
If the CEL comes on and goes off normally, all fuses are good, there are no codes, you have spark (ICM and coil are new), the fuel pump runs, but the engine does not start, then replace the distributor housing (genuine Honda only). It's likely the internal sensors (CKP, TDC, and CYP) are damaged, which are not serviceable, and it's firing at the wrong time. Over 50% of new aftermarket distributors for Hondas, bought by AMHD members, have not worked. Aftermarket ICMs and coils, however, have been fine. Therefore, only buy a genuine Honda distributor housing and install your new aftermarket ICM and coil in it. If you have a distributorless ignition system, the Crankshaft Position Sensor (CKP) is likely bad and should be replaced. Because of their proximity to the crankshaft and exposure to the elements (water, salt, grease, dirt, and stones) they commonly fail.
IMPORTANT NOTE: I am not a fan of bench testing ICMs, coils, and main relays. DIY bench testing does not simulate the heat that often causes these components to exhibit intermittent failure. It's safer to replace these critical ignition system components every 120,000 miles or 10 years, whichever comes first. Remember, the objective is "like new" performance and reliability, for as long as you own the car.
Honda Civic Ignition System Troubleshooting: 5 Basic Tests
Before performing the tests below, remove and fully charge the battery, clean battery terminals, and clean cable connections. Many people incorrectly assume their battery is good, because the horn, radio, dash lights, and head lights work.
A summary of the tests that should be followed, if you are experiencing a "crank but won't start situation," are:
1. Check Engine Light (CEL) Tests. If the CEL does not go out (i.e., stays on), most Civics will not spark and the fuel pump will not run (I'm not sure how true that part is; as far as I know it ISNT the case but someone else can chime in on that). Therefore, all efforts should first be directed to correcting the problem(s) that prevent you from being able to answer "Yes" to the three basic diagnostic questions below:
a. Turning the ignition switch to ON (Position II), not START, does the CEL come on and then go off after 2 seconds? If not, the problem is with the ACG (ALT) (S) 15 amp fuse, in the under dash fuse/relay box; ECM (perform the K-Test, below); main relay; or the ignition switch. Perform tests in that order.
The K-Test: Remove the MAP Sensor connector and turn the ignition switch to ON (Position II). Using a multimeter, check for 5 volts going between the MAP Sensor connector's reference wire (+) and ground. As you look at the connector, this is the socket on the right. Really press the black test lead into a cleaned main ECM ground on the thermostat housing. If the voltage is low, it’s probably indicating ECM failure. Most failed ECMs will record a fraction of a volt. To me, the K-Test is simple, elegant, and accurate. Many Hondas parked for several years are now back on the road. "The K-Test creates massive value, by providing a low cost solution where one did not previously exist."--TxGM
b. When the CEL goes out, do you hear and/or feel the Main Relay "click"? If not, repair or replace the Main Relay.
c. During the 2 second interval that the CEL is on, do you hear the fuel pump in the gas tank run? If not, check that the fuel pump works by jumping terminals 5 and 7 on the main relay connector and then turning the ignition switch to ON.
2. Fuse Tests. Check all under hood and under dash fuses with a test light or multimeter:
Using a test light or multimeter is faster, more accurate, and eliminates the possibility of replacing a fuse in the wrong slot. This is easy to do in the dark and cramped location of most under dash fuse boxes.
3. Diagnostic Trouble Code (DTC) Test. Jump the 2-P Service Check Connector with a paper clip, turn the ignition switch to ON (Position II), and read DTCs, if any, on OBD-I cars. On OBD-II cars (1996 and later), attach a code reader to the data link connector, located under the dash.
4. Spark Tests. Perform the standard spark test; i.e., remove a spark plug wire and attach it to a properly gapped spark plug, touch the plug to a convenient ground, and observe the spark, while someone cranks the engine. Look for a good, solid spark. It's preferable to use a calibrated ignition tester, such as KD Tools No. 2756. Do this for each plug. If none of the plugs spark:
a. Tachometer Test. Disconnect tachometer wire (if equipped). A shorted tachometer can prevent the vehicle from starting. The blue wire going to the Ignition Control Module (Ignitor) should be unfastened. Try starting the car again. If it starts, the problem is with the tachometer. If it still doesn't start:
b. Power to Distributor Test. Turn ignition OFF. Disconnect the 2-P connector from the distributor. Turn the ignition switch ON. Measure voltage between BLK/YEL (+) terminal and body ground. There should be 12+ volts read. If not, repair open in BLK/YEL wire between the 2-P connector and ignition switch.
c. Ignition Control Module (ICM) or Igniter Test. Several characteristics of a bad igniter are no spark (dead engine); fluctuating rpm; engine suddenly dying without warning, especially when hot; and engine not starting when hot. I place little faith in Honda's standard ICM test below:
1. Remove distributor cap, rotor, and leak cover.
2. Disconnect the BLK/YEL, WHT/BLU, YEL/GRN, and BLU wires from the ICM.
3. Turn the ignition switch ON. Check for voltage between the BLK/YEL wire and body ground. There should be battery voltage. If there is no voltage, check the BLK/YEL wire between the ignition switch and the ICM. If there is voltage, go to step 4.
4. Turn ignition switch ON. Check for voltage between the WHT/BLU wire and body ground. There should be battery voltage. If there is no battery voltage, check the ignition coil and the WHT/BLU wire between the ignition coil and the ICM. If there is battery voltage, go to step 5.
5. Check the YEL/GRN wire between the ECM and the ICM.
6. Check the BLU wire between the tachometer and the ICM.
7. If all test are normal, replace the ICM.
Conceptually, the ICM is a large output transistor (switch) controlling current through the primary coil. ICMs replace points and condenser in older vehicles. In the primary coil, current builds to 5 to 12 amps, generating lots of heat (due to inductance). Then, the ECM controls when the ICM "switches off" current to the primary coil, causing amperage to go to zero. When this happens, 12 to 14 volts in the primary coil is "stepped-up" to 30,000 volts in the secondary coil. This process creates a type of alternating current required for the coil (step-up transformer) to work. In a properly working ICM, timing is precisely when needed to fire each spark plug.
d. Coil Test. Similarly, I'm not a fan of Honda's coil test below.
1. Remove the two screws to disconnect the BLK/YEL and WHT/BLU wires from terminals A (+) and B (-), respectively.
2. Measure resistance (Ω ohms) between the terminals. Replace coil if the resistance is not within specifications. Primary Winding Resistance, between A (+) and B (-) terminals, should be 0.6 to 0.8 ohms. Secondary Winding Resistance, between A (+) and secondary winding terminal, should be 12.8 to 19.2 k-ohms. The secondary winding terminal is where the high voltage comes out.
Autozone will often test igniters on a Well's machine for free--I don't place much faith in the results. Our experience, at AMHD, is if it fails the test, it's bad. If it passes, it may or may not work properly.
EXAMPLE: Diagnosing an Engine That Cranks but Won’t Start
Check for spark at the plugs. If none, check for spark at the coil, after removing the distributor cap, rotor, and leak cover. Ground the test light clip and check for spark from the coil, as an assistant turns the ignition switch to Start. If the coil works, there should be a spark between the spring on the coil and the test light, as the probe is brought in the proximity of the spring. You now have spark at the coil and no spark at the plugs; therefore, replace the rotor and distributor cap, since one or both may be shorting out.
If there’s no spark from the coil, check the igniter with the test light. Take a jumper wire, with alligator clips on each end, and ground out the coil spring. Touch the test light probe to the negative terminal on the coil, as your assistant turns the ignition switch to Start. If the igniter is good, the test light should blink on and off. If the test light does not blink on and off, replace the igniter. Should the coil still not spark, after replacing the igniter, replace the coil.
In real life, everything can check out but the engine can still die on you, once it gets hot and the igniter and/or coil start to break down under load. That’s why I’m not a real fan of testing igniters and coils. This diagnostic process may keep you from just throwing parts at the problem—just be aware of its limitations.
Bottom Line: ICMs and coils really take a beating in Hondas.
5. Fuel Test. For the fuel injectors to work properly, the fuel rail must receive fuel at the proper flow and pressure. To test fuel pump pressure:
a. Disconnect negative battery cable.
b. Remove gas cap, in order to depressurize the system.
c. Remove the 6 mm service bolt at the fuel filter, while holding the banjo bolt with another wrench.
d. Place shop towel over the service bolt.
e. Loosen the service bolt one complete turn, to depressurize the fuel filter.
f. Install fuel pressure gauge and check for 40 to 47 psi. If engine will not start, turn the ignition switch on, wait for two seconds, turn it off, then back on again and read the fuel pressure. If pressure is low, check for a clogged fuel filter, faulty fuel pressure regulator, or leakage in the fuel hoses or pipes. As a last resort, replace the fuel pump.
SUMMARY
If the CEL comes on and goes off normally, all fuses are good, there are no codes, you have spark (ICM and coil are new), the fuel pump runs, but the engine does not start, then replace the distributor housing (genuine Honda only). It's likely the internal sensors (CKP, TDC, and CYP) are damaged, which are not serviceable, and it's firing at the wrong time. Over 50% of new aftermarket distributors for Hondas, bought by AMHD members, have not worked. Aftermarket ICMs and coils, however, have been fine. Therefore, only buy a genuine Honda distributor housing and install your new aftermarket ICM and coil in it. If you have a distributorless ignition system, the Crankshaft Position Sensor (CKP) is likely bad and should be replaced. Because of their proximity to the crankshaft and exposure to the elements (water, salt, grease, dirt, and stones) they commonly fail.
IMPORTANT NOTE: I am not a fan of bench testing ICMs, coils, and main relays. DIY bench testing does not simulate the heat that often causes these components to exhibit intermittent failure. It's safer to replace these critical ignition system components every 120,000 miles or 10 years, whichever comes first. Remember, the objective is "like new" performance and reliability, for as long as you own the car.
