D15, D16, D17 and Mini-Me swaps
By Robb333d
#318829
I'm a noob first civic first time trying to have a completely nice car. So I went out and bought the nicest stock car I could find. I didn't want someone's project I wanted my own.

I found a fully stock one owner 92 eg cx hatch with a d15b8 thought this is a great little car and it is. But after doing a little research, and after driving it for a few day's it was obvious to me I need more power.

I just don't know what the best way to go is and where to start. I could just do a swap or I could go mini me. what do people recommend and in the mean time what can I do until I decide what can I do to increase the power of the cx that wont be a waste of my money and could be used for the mini me or a full swap.
Thanks
Robb
User avatar
By bigJOE671
#318830 Just bought my first Civic. How do I make it faster?
For people that have been around for a while you see that question is asked fifty-ba-jillion times a week. And we get five-hundred ba-jillion answers-each time saying the same exact things. Most of the following links can easily be found in the FAQs by anyone looking for them. I'll be adding more links as I find them. Any input is greatly appreciated.

Before anyone says "This is just your opinion" I actually have collected dyno results for all of the performance stuff to follow.

Which Civic is best to mod? This is a really important question. Because if you have any trim level less than an EX (just my opinion here) you have a grocery getter with an engine built for super economy. Even the EX is still an economy car and the SI really isn't that much an improvement despite all the hype behind the B16A. And the gearing on transmissions of the lesser models are NOT conducive to hauling ass on the highway. People tend to buy the hatches for weight savings or plain preference but in the 6th gen models the best engine the hatches came with was the lowly D16Y7 (106HP). In the 5th gens you could get the SI in hatch form but the horsepower was only a measly 125hp (U.S.) in the D16Z6 engine. Check Wikipedia for the specs on the engines. When I did I was amazed to find out Honda had been producing engines that were getting 48-55MPG long before Hybrids got popular. Unfortunately these are NOT the engines you want to be modding. If you've bought one of these before researching, I'm sorry to say that you're pretty much very limited as to the power you can coax out of these little 4-bangers. Sorry. Of course you can go the forced induction route on anything with an engine but for best results and a better starting platform stick to the higher trims. If you got or can get a Civic with a swap already in it all the better. I DO NOT recommend buying an already turbocharged Civic if you don't know dick about boost. I PROMISE YOU, you will regret it almost immediately and ESPECIALLY when something goes wrong.

And lastly I'd like to add in this little bit of info in the form of a quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbpnoman View Post
One of the biggest things to keep in mind is that power doesn't translate between a CTS-V and a Del Sol. A 500WHP CTS-V is pretty quick on the streets - a 500WHP Del Sol is scary as shit to drive on the streets.
In the case with these cars it's all about power to weight. You don't necessarily need more power than the other car to be faster.

GENERAL UPGRADES
http://honda-tech.com/showthread.php?t=335078

AFTERMARKET PARTS
If you're an impatient or cheap Civic owner please skip the following;
Many MANY years ago, when I first got into modding, before I got on any forum, I browsed the internet and read all the magazines and bought into all the advertising hype they were spewing. "This part adds XX power" and "that parts adds XX more". I also thought that all parts were the same if they LOOKED the same. That there couldn't be that much of a difference. That it couldn't hurt to cheap out a little because I couldn't afford the real deal at the time. After many years and much time and money wasted, I came to the realization that you cannot believe what these companies are spoon feeding you. That you cannot cheap out because you'll wind up doing it twice, maybe even three of more times. You will look back and realize, like I did, that the pile of crap sitting on the garage floor could have bought LEGIT parts maybe twice over.

My advice on the issue is simply that you want to buy parts that have good solid R&D behind them with good customer service and MANY glowing customer reviews. Don't jump on bandwagon parts simply because they are popular or are cheap. That's what everyone else is doing and they've convinced themselves that their crap knock-off parts are as good as the parts they are ripping off. Pass on these. Usually, the parts that are not plastered all over the net or in the magazines, are the ones you really want to put on your car. It's your choice if you want to ignore my advice.

BOLT-ONS The least cost effective means of trying to get power into your Civic (unless you stick to no-name brands off of Ebay). You're better off leaving it stock and dropping in a K&N filter into the stock airbox. What, you say? "That's the accepted big three upgrades everyone is told to make to get power. It's like, the LAW!" Sorry to tell you there's no Santa Claus but it's a myth perpetrated by the import magazines for years. All these things do for you is shift your power band and really don't ADD usable power, so it only sounds and feels like you've gotten faster but you have not. I don't care what anyone tells you. The only TRUE bolt on that makes power is a supercharger/turbocharger. If you don't believe ME I know you'll believe these dynos.

Dyno results
D-Series - I/H/E - Intake, Header & Exhaust
http://asia.vtec.net/beystock/Civic/art9/index.html
93 SI - http://www.importtuner.com/powerpage..._si/index.html
99 CX - http://www.honda-tech.com/showthread.php?t=292169
Z6 (tuned) - http://www.honda-tech.com/showthread.php?t=2488401
http://www.honda-tech.com/showthread.php?t=1116589

D-Series (moderate bolt-ons)
D16Z6 - http://www.d-series.org/forums/natur...ph-inside.html

Here is the official All Motor single cam thread.
http://honda-tech.com/showthread.php?t=1771904

B-Series (moderate bolt-ons)
B16A - http://www.honda-tech.com/showthread.php?t=1969547
B16A - http://clubeg6.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=21027
B16A2 VS B18C - http://www.ht-archive.net/showthread.php?p=28826037

A repository of dynos. Please pay attention to the all the N/A builds. No power. No torque. Then compare the supercharger vs. turbocharger.
dynoperformance.com
Sample stats from that link for quick reference (in case that site goes down).
1997 Honda civic hp: 108.9@6520 tq: 95.6@6520 modifications: AEM Underdrive Pulleys,AEM Short Ram Intake,Flowmaster American Thunder Muffler,Hondata Intake Manifold Gasket, 4-1 Header,
1990 Honda civic dx hp: 144.7@7580 tq: 101.7@7280 modifications: CAI, DC Sports header, Magnaflow resonator, SPP muffler, Catco catalytic converter, Honda 1990 b16 motor(stock), Honda 1992 Integra GSR transmission
1990 Honda civic dx hp: 144.3@7530 tq: 101.1@7340 modifications: CAI, DC Sports header, Magnaflow resonator, SPP muffler, Catco catalytic converter, Honda 1990 b16 motor(stock), Honda 1992 Integra GSR transmission
1999 Honda civic ex hp: 103.4@6610 tq: 97.8@4520 modifications: AEM Intake,DC Sport Exhaust,Tokico Suspension,Skunk 2 Camber Kit,
2000 Honda civic si hp: 152.2@6330 tq: 128.8@6050 modifications: Jackson Racing Eaton supercharger, Thermal catback exhaust, Injen intake
2000 Honda civic si hp: 148.9@7350 tq: 118.5@6130 modifications: Jackson Racing Eaton supercharger, Thermal catback exhaust, Injen intake 1993 Honda civic si hp: 168.9@7320 tq: 127.3@6250 modifications: Jackson Racing M45 supercharger, Kamikaze Exhaust header, 2.5" Random Tech Catalytic converter, Apexi N1 exhaust1993 Honda civic si hp: 196.9@6230 tq: 183.2@5350 modifications: Greddy SOHC Greddy turbo kit, Greddy Profec B Spec II boost controller, TurboXS blow off valve, Hondata s200 with boost option, Johnnyracecar.com front mount intercooler, JE offset pin pistons, Eagle H beam piston rods1993 Honda civic vx hp: 166.9@4910 tq: 178.5@4910 modifications: Acura Integra 1.8l DOHC engine, Turbonetics turbocharger, Thermal 3 inch catback exhaust
2000 Honda s2000 hp: 202.7@8290 tq: 138.1@6300 modifications: AEM cold air intake

As you can see, regardless of what you've heard, you don't get much of a gain with these simple bolt-ons with a D/B-series. It's only a Civic. It's still slower than a CRV or an Odyssey. I hope to add more to this section as we go. Don't fool yourself into thinking you actually are any faster with bolt-ons. YOU'RE NOT. So getting the most expensive, name brand stuff you can find is just going to put a lot of money in someone else pocket. This is one of those times Ebay CAN be your friend.

Now if you MUST have these on your car, for the placebo effect (or just showing off), I would recommend just going the Ebay route.
Intakes - A velocity stack and a no-name pipe is your best bet for any horsepower gain. You can throw a cone filter on top of that for piece of mind.

Header - Many have run Ebay headers with no issues. In some of these the gaskets are the weak link and tend to blow out.

Catback Exhaust- Noise quality aside, FITMENT is the biggest issue when purchasing these. The money you spend to get things straightened out would be better served by just buying a quality name brand exhaust or having a shop put one together from scratch.

SWAPS - Short of turbocharging this is the next best thing to getting power into your Civic if you're just not satisfied. I mean, you can spend thousands (yes, I said thousands) building up an N/A D-series and you MAY be just a little bit more powerful than a stock B16 (which really isn't all that fast). Swaps are cheap.

General Engine Swap Info
http://honda-tech.com/showthread.php?t=878010
http://honda-tech.com/showthread.php?t=131949
http://www.hondahookup.com/info/engine_swap_faq.php

Engine Specific
B-Series
B20 into 92-00 - http://honda-tech.com/showthread.php?t=447623
GSR into 92-00 - http://honda-tech.com/showthread.php?t=2976738 http://web.archive.org/web/201102210...cswap/swap.php
How to Build a reliable LS-VTEC/B20VTEC- http://www.honda-tech.com/showthread.php?t=1676914

K-Series
http://honda-tech.com/showthread.php?t=2059720

F/H-Series
H22A swap FAQ - http://www.honda-tech.com/showthread.php?t=650329
H2B/F2B FAQ - http://www.honda-tech.com/showthread.php?t=1998426
http://honda-tech.com/showthread.php?t=650329
IMO if you want to get some serious power and torque into your Civic but refuse to go the F/I route then consider the H2B setup. 200-220hp and apx. 160lbs of torque make s this a no brainer. You get K-series power at a fraction of the cost. If I were to rethink my turbo build I would have taken this route AND THEN slapped a small turbo on it.

J-Series
What you need for a J-swap - http://www.j32a.com/showthread.php?t=773
http://www.honda-tech.com/showthread.php?t=2410727

Head Swaps - Mini-Me - I'm only adding swaps to this section that are complete from start to finish and are proven to work. No weird Frankenstein combos will be listed unless it's a link to a COMPLETE guide.
92-95 - http://honda-tech.com/showthread.php?t=554053
96-00 - http://www.jdmuniverse.com/forums/view_minime.html
6th-5th gen - http://honda-tech.com/showthread.php?t=2147115
IMO these were a fad that never died out. When I first heard about these they were touted to net you SIGNIFICANT horsepower if you were stuck with anything but a Z6 or a Y8. In reality the gains are really not worth writing home about and because people NEVER want to do these the right way you will see the forums cluttered with these guys begging for help when their head swap goes wrong.

Transmission Swaps
92-95 - http://honda-tech.com/showthread.php?t=2090074
96-00 - http://honda-tech.com/showthread.php?t=1337459

FORCED INDUCTION
Turbo -Hands down the most cost effective (not to be confused with cheap) means of putting power into your Civic. When done reliably expect NICE gains that will destroy any N/A build every single time for fraction of the cost of a good N/A build-period.

A stock D-series block (rods) can handle 200-220 horsepower safely before you have to consider building the block up.
A stock B-series block (rods) can handle 300-320 horsepower.

NOTE!!! PSI don't mean shit! It's the volume of air that your turbo can move that counts. Therefore the CHOICE OF TURBO is the main factor that will dictate what horsepower you will be able to reach. ANYONE, and i mean ANYONE that tells you something like this "I only want to push about 7 or 8 PSI" or "You should be safe with 10PSI on a stock engine" is an absolute IDIOT because they don't know what they are talking about!!! Run away from them.

A word on Ebay kits. These are a crap shoot. You have a 50/50 chance of actually getting a decent turbo. Do you feel lucky?

NOTE 2!!! You CANNOT just bolt on a turbo kit. You have to upgrade the fuel system, install some type of engine management system (Hondata, Neptune) and get street/dyno tuned by someone that knows what they are doing. A VAFC/SAFC is NOT a tuning device. Maybe 15 years ago, but not today. THE TUNE IS ABSOLUTELY THE MOST IMPORTANT THING YOU NEED TO DO. IF you cannot afford to get it tuned and think running a "good basemap" is sufficient, you might as well just save your money and go on a cruise.

Note 3!!! If you really truly plan on going turbo in the future do not invest in any fancy intake or header. You cannot use these on a turbo build like you can with a supercharger.

Note 4!!! If you don't care about learning to boost the right way or even how boost even works, and only want to go fast and impress your friends, then my suggestion is to NOT waste anyone's time asking about turbo kits and just buy a crap-shoot kit off of Ebay. SOME of us like to do this the right way.

Boosting a Civic - http://sportcompactcar.automotive.co...ost/index.html
Here's a good guide on how to pick your turbo setup and how to install it. It's a little dated. - http://www.beesandgoats.com/boostfaq/g2icturbo.html
Parts List - http://www.hondacivicforum.com/forum...ad.php?t=42034
Installation Guide - http://honda-tech.com/showthread.php?t=1263795

D-series F/I dynos (for those that ever doubt D-series can make power)
http://honda-tech.com/showpost.php?p...ostcount=14290
http://honda-tech.com/showpost.php?p...ostcount=14284
http://honda-tech.com/showpost.php?p...ostcount=14285
http://honda-tech.com/showpost.php?p...ostcount=14148

I've seen a lot of people asking about building a turbo kit. I didn't see anything like a chart out that provided a quick visual reference out there so I made one for easy reference!
Typical builds for D & B series. To make similar power with different components use similarly rated parts! It's that easy! All you have to do is research what parts are actually comparable, and substitute!
200-300hp-A/C compat. 200-450hp-A/C compat. 200-450hp-A/C compat. 450+hp 600+hp

Cast Iron Manifold
Garrett T3 Super 60 .48 a/r 5 bolt standard
Opt. Precision 4854B .63 a/r
Opt. Precision 4831B .63 a/r
Tial 38mm wastegate
Tial 50mm blow off valve



Ceramic Coated Cast Iron Manifold
Bullseye Power S200 turbo .55 a/r housing
Tial 38mm wastegate
Tial 50mm blow off valve



Log Manifold
Garrett Turbocharger
Opt. Garrett T3/T4 50 trim .63a/r
Opt. Garrett T3/T4 57 trim .63 a/r
Opt. Garrett T3 60 .48 a/r
Opt. Garrett T3/T4 45 trim
Opt. Precision 4854B .63 a/r
Opt. Precision 4831B .63 a/r
Tial 38mm wastegate
Tial 50mm blow off valve



Mini Ram Manifold
.70 a/r SPEC Turbo by Bullseye Power
Tial 38mm MVR wastegate
Opt. 44mm MVR
Tial 50mm Q blow off valve



Ramhorn Manifold
Precision .63 a/r billet 6262 turbo
Opt. Precision .63 a/r billet 6262 turbo
Opt. Bullseye Power S362 .70 a/r
Precision 46MM wastegate
Opt. Tial 44MM MVR wastegate
Greddy Rs
HKS SSQ

Various required parts.
Dumptube, oil lines, charge piping, intercooler, couplers, clamps, etc.
Upgrade Clutch to hold the new power!
Get real engine management - Hondata, Neptune AEM, <CROME>
Gauges to monitor your engine - Oil pressure, Boost/Vac, Wideband
ARP headstuds!!!
Upgrade fuel system!!!.

Parts list based (in other words copied)off of kits offered by Go-Autoworks. (May not be current.)
Why are Greddy and Edelbrock not listed here? Greddy kits are no longer made and Edelbrock kits are overpriced IMO.

Supercharger
I have NO experience with these other than there is a myth floating around that they are more reliable than a turbo application. This might have been true about 15 or so years ago when people were running FMUs and Missing links to modify their fuel systems, but the hobby has progressed MUCH since then. Today this belief absolutely has no merit.
I welcome any input anyone has on these.
Here's the JRSC thread.
http://honda-tech.com/showthread.php?t=1214810

Nitrous.
Who wants to keep refilling a bottle if you're not on the track? I also have no experience in this arena but here's a link to the official Nitrous thread in the Forced Induction forum.
http://honda-tech.com/showthread.php?t=2119397

NATURALLY ASPIRATED BUILDS
A great way to go a little faster and empty your bank account doing it (IMO).
D-Series
http://www.honda-tech.com/showthread.php?t=1670633
Dyno You'll be sad when you read the low HP numbers you get because you somehow think an N/A build is more reliable.
http://honda-tech.com/showpost.php?p...postcount=3526
The SOHC All Motor thread.
http://honda-tech.com/showthread.php?t=1771904

B-Series
How to Build a reliable LS-VTEC/B20VTEC- http://www.honda-tech.com/showthread.php?t=1676914

SUSPENSION ('cause you can't go fast if your suspension is crap)

First word of advice. DO NOT LOWER YOUR CAR ON SRINGS/COILOVERS WHILE USING STOCK SHOCKS!!!
You will eventually blow the shocks. Even on a relatively mild drop. Anyone that tells you that they have done it and it's "okay" are either REALLY lucky or are really just cheap bastards that cannot afford a real setup OR uninformed/inexperienced people that wouldn't know a real suspension setup if I gave it to them. Suspension SEEMS like the most simple upgrade you can make but in fact there are a lot of factors, like geometry, that play a major part in it.

Note!!! You cannot dump your car and have a smooth ride. The lower you go the higher the spring rate you will need to keep from bottoming out and the more stiff your ride will be. If you don't know what the term "spring rate" means then you aren't ready to upgrade your suspension. If you don't know what spring rates are suitable for your style of driving you CANNOT know what suspension setup you need to purchase.

DO NOT CUT SPRINGS!!!! I don't care WHAT your redneck hot rod muscle car friends and family tell you. It's UNSAFE and lets everyone know how friggin' cheap/broke/stupid you really are.

http://www.honda-tech.com/showthread...2913258&page=2

Springs
Fallicy: "A spring is just a spring". You hear this once in a while but nothing could be farther from the truth. If you think that your $35 set of off-brand/no brand springs are of the same quality as a set of springs from a company that is dedicated to it then, by all means, stop reading and get the cheap stuff. I cannot recommend any particular brand because I have never used lowering springs. I will go out on a limb and throw the name Eibach out there though. The only thing I do know is that you will never get and even height all around and you're pretty much stuck with whatever height it is the springs give you. If you go this route as it may be cheaper try to get spring rates that suit you.

Shocks
Like I said previously, don't lower your car on stock shocks or stock shock replacements. I used to be under the belief that a "mild drop" of 1-1.5" would be okay since that's what was going around on the forums. There is even some self-proclaimed "expert" that boldly states that shocks cannot be blown!!! THIS IS WRONG!!! The act of lowering by itself doesn't blow the shock. Neither does driving them lowered. But all it takes is one good pothole, speedbump, etc. and that shock is gone. Ask me how I know. Stock shocks were never designed to operate at anything but their stock height.

Coilover Sleeves & Strut/Shock Combo
Koni + Ground Control - This seems to be the unanimous HANDS DOWN choice when going this route.
Progress CS-II - I personally run these. EXCELLENT product. People tend to shy away from them in part because you have to reuse the stock top hats/perches (lazy) or they are under the false assumption that a "full" coilover that can "preload" is better. Make note; It's false info and most of these people don't even know what preload is and don't know how to adjust their "full" coilovers in the first place.
Note!!! These are wonderful coilovers and give you an automatic 1" drop due to the shortened shock body BUT they are not designed to slam your car. Be warned.

Disclaimer: Function & Form Type 1 seem to be a popular choice (with all the uninformed fanboys that buy these strictly because it's what their "boys" are rocking or they heard they were good.) but overall performance goes to the CS II's for entry level coilovers. If you must ride slammed then get the F&Fs and when you grow up you can upgrade to a real suspension. Can't speak to ride quality or customizable spring rates though. Skunk2, Blox, D2, K-Sport, Blackworks, Godspeed, etc. are pretty much all the same stuff and are really only recommended for anyone that is only interested in hardparking and following trends.
AMR - Pricey but they can totally build a shock 100% tailored to your needs with springs rates you specify.

General (non-technical) guide to picking suspension components.
http://honda-tech.com/showthread.php?t=2967499

Sway Bars
Here's what I know. Bigger one up front and smaller/none in the rear = understeer. Bigger in back, smaller in front = oversteer. Learn which one is beneficial to your style of driving.

COOLING
Not really needed for a stock setup. But if your rad is on it's last legs then go for it.
I personally run this setup by GoAutoworks with their shroud and a slimfan from http://slimfan.com (because it's plug and play and I hate hacking wires) for my boosted D. Some say it's overkill. I say "why risk it?"
http://www.go-autoworks-store.com/12sialras.html

Note!!! You can get one of these cheaper on Ebay ($50) but I have never found one that the neck was the proper size for the D-series radiator hoses. Ever try slipping a D-series hose over a B-series neck? They are all made for B-series and the stock hoses are a BITCH to get on (if you even can). People have said that you can use the B-series hoses and just snug them down real tight but I think this is a half-assed approach and would seem to be prone to leaks.

Note 2!!! If you get one of these aluminum rads and only a slim fan you may see WORSE cooling performance. Why? It's all in the shroud. It helps get the air where it needs to go.

Note 3!!! If you get one of these and use the stock fan/shroud your overflow tank most likely will no longer fit in the stock location. Be warned.

EXHAUST
Sound levels-http://www.honda-tech.com/showthread.php?t=2907847
Horsepower - Not really a factor on N/A setups.
If you are going boost then I'd recommend a 3" exhaust.


Credit goes to grumblemarc