N/A build discussion
User avatar
By Eg6H2D
#321560 Why should the H series balance shaft be removed? ??

Im sure they were put in there by Honda for a good reason..

Can someone shine some light on this aside from gaining HP..

:roll:
By HeikDiesel
#321562 Reduced Rotating Mass
Added oil pressure
Added vibration at idle
Avoid clearance issues on H2B's

That's all I can think of off the top of my head
User avatar
By Uknterror
#321589 Any 4cyl motor that has a bigger displacement than 2.0 has balance shafts. 4cyl's are naturally unbalanced motors and vibrations become more apparent the bigger the displacement. Any belt driven style balance shaft can just have the belt removed with little additional vibrations. HeikDiesel's list is the only reasons for their purpose in a honda motor.
By HeikDiesel
#321636 This is a Honda forum, right
User avatar
By chrono404
#321654
HeikDiesel wrote:Reduced Rotating Mass
Added oil pressure
Added vibration at idle
Avoid clearance issues on H2B's

That's all I can think of off the top of my head


x2

EG6b20R wrote:Why should the H series balance shaft be removed? ??

Im sure they were put in there by Honda for a good reason..

Can someone shine some light on this aside from gaining HP..

:roll:


Honda did put them in there for a good reason. As the name applies they are their for balancing the engine. Its one of the reasons the h22 is able to rev upto 8000 RPM while having such a long stroke.

I wouldn't remove them from my H22. Nor would i buy an H22 that had them removed. Doing so will shorten its lifespan.
By HeikDiesel
#321661
chrono404 wrote:Doing so will shorten its lifespan.


Any proof of this? I mean the rotating assembly should be balanced, so this should only affect the car at idle.
User avatar
By Eg6H2D
#321676
chrono404 wrote:
HeikDiesel wrote:Reduced Rotating Mass
Added oil pressure
Added vibration at idle
Avoid clearance issues on H2B's

That's all I can think of off the top of my head


x2

EG6b20R wrote:Why should the H series balance shaft be removed? ??

Im sure they were put in there by Honda for a good reason..

Can someone shine some light on this aside from gaining HP..

:roll:


Honda did put them in there for a good reason. As the name applies they are their for balancing the engine. Its one of the reasons the h22 is able to rev upto 8000 RPM while having such a long stroke.

I wouldn't remove them from my H22. Nor would i buy an H22 that had them removed. Doing so will shorten its lifespan.



Thank you Chrono and everyone else. :thumb:

that's the answer I was lokoing for. I was thinking when removed they will throw off the balance. which might cause the Piston to Scratch or Scar the Sleeve on one side due to being off balance.. does that make any sense?

So with that being in my head now. i will keep them in there. 8whp more. isnt a HUGGGEEEEEEE difference.. Id rather have longetivity from my engine over anything! .
User avatar
By Uknterror
#321701 Balance shafts counter balance the engine to reduce vibrations. I have personally removed these from other h22's and my mazda which both have well over 100k miles. Quatersport drag explictspeed and many other shops that deal with h22's opt to remove them if the engine is being torn down anyway and last well through a race season and also double as a street car.

That's the information that I know, maybe you can provide something that may contract my statements?
User avatar
By blk92hb
#321773 you could do it with the bisimotor kit but i would think you would need a fluid damper crank pully to help with the vibrations. but after all that hp per dollar its not worth it imo
User avatar
By chrono404
#321789
HeikDiesel wrote:
chrono404 wrote:Doing so will shorten its lifespan.


Any proof of this? I mean the rotating assembly should be balanced, so this should only affect the car at idle.


The rotating assembly is only balanced so far. the only production engines that are perfectly balanced to come out of a honda plant are the Type-R engines which are perfectly balanced and therefore dont need the harmonic balancer the other honda engines need. If you put the Type-R non harmonic balanced crank pully and put it on an engine that needed one you will damage the engine over time due to its addition vibrations. You will get away with it for a while, however in time it will damage your engine.

The fact that honda spend billions of dollars in designing, tooling and manufacturing the balancing shafts point to them being needed. If honda could get away with out doing this it only makes sense to do so.

There is no state mandate saying cars over X liters need balancing shafts, the reason honda puts in EGR parts is to comply with governmental requirements of the markets it sells its cars in. since no mandate requires these shafts to be in an engine, and honda puts them in at great cost over the millions of engines they make they have a darn good reason for putting them in.

As stated before I will never do this mod to any H series engine i will ever own, nor if such a mod was done, Wouldn't buy that engine/car. It tells you the person who modded the car/engine before cared more about going fast then the longevity of the car/engine. It will have been raced on and who knows what other sketchy things have been done as well. I'm sure i am a small percentage of people thinking of it that way but thats how i view it.
User avatar
By Eg6H2D
#321807
chrono404 wrote:
HeikDiesel wrote:
chrono404 wrote:Doing so will shorten its lifespan.


Any proof of this? I mean the rotating assembly should be balanced, so this should only affect the car at idle.


The rotating assembly is only balanced so far. the only production engines that are perfectly balanced to come out of a honda plant are the Type-R engines which are perfectly balanced and therefore dont need the harmonic balancer the other honda engines need. If you put the Type-R non harmonic balanced crank pully and put it on an engine that needed one you will damage the engine over time due to its addition vibrations. You will get away with it for a while, however in time it will damage your engine.

The fact that honda spend billions of dollars in designing, tooling and manufacturing the balancing shafts point to them being needed. If honda could get away with out doing this it only makes sense to do so.

There is no state mandate saying cars over X liters need balancing shafts, the reason honda puts in EGR parts is to comply with governmental requirements of the markets it sells its cars in. since no mandate requires these shafts to be in an engine, and honda puts them in at great cost over the millions of engines they make they have a darn good reason for putting them in.

As stated before I will never do this mod to any H series engine i will ever own, nor if such a mod was done, Wouldn't buy that engine/car. It tells you the person who modded the car/engine before cared more about going fast then the longevity of the car/engine. It will have been raced on and who knows what other sketchy things have been done as well. I'm sure i am a small percentage of people thinking of it that way but thats how i view it.


:thumb: :thumb: :thumb:

Well said!
By HeikDiesel
#321810 On a H2B swap you really don't have a choice. So I mean you have to pick and fight your battles.
User avatar
By Uknterror
#321833 My information came from the research I was doing for balance shaft delete for my mazda in 06. Which is now dated, and now im finding out is only partially correct.

I HATE to quote anything from wiki but this seems to go hand in hand on the recent information I gathered from a couple of techs.....http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balance_shaft

But again most owners remove these with no ill effects long term or otherwise (atleast from what I've personally seen).

Once again anything bigger than 2.x liter typically uses balance shafts for that very reason. Only R&D that goes into it how they want to implement it into the engine...

It's all about comfort