Anything & Everything Off-Topic (Some material may be offensive)
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By teal_dx
#349162 Cliff Notes: I filed a small claims against deadbeat renters for $2970 last week. He said drop the claim or he will counter sue.

Full: I bought a condo in 2003, lived there until 2008. Couldn’t sell it at the time so I began renting it to break even on mortgage + association fees + insurance. These 2 guys, Bob and Mike, started renting in June 2010. Everything was good for the first year or two, just a couple late payments. Then they got a month behind a couple times, but always caught back up. Then summer of 2013 they were almost 3 months behind, but assured me they were going to be able to get caught up once some things went thru, and they did. I was reluctant to kick them out because they had been good renters and I still pay about $900/mo for the condo so it would hurt while it sat empty, looking for the next renters. 2014 was pretty shitty, I think only 2 or 3 months were on time. They owed me April and May rent but paid it all up in June. Then June never arrived, same for July. Whenever rent was late, there was always an excuse (post office, bill pay never sent it out, sent it to the wrong place etc).

Also during the last year, they had been in a couple heated arguments with the members of the association about putting up a fence on the balcony (after I told them it is not allowed) and using a grill on the balcony, which they ignored the association and the fire dept. came out (but didn’t find their grill.) There was also some complaints of them getting in verbal arguments with the neighbors. I usually stood up for them, as they were helping me break even on the condo.

Bob was always my contact and in charge of their finances, never Mike. Bob hadn’t been answering my calls or replying to texts, so in I sent him an email in mid-Aug threatening eviction. Then he finally replied he had been in the hospital, on meds etc (heard that excuse before, apparently his health is horrible for being late 20’s/early 30’s).

He said he and Mike are broke (Mike broke his leg and hadn’t worked in a couple months) and was advised by his attorney to file for chapter 7 bankruptcy. He was getting ready to move out and would be out at the end of Aug. He was finally out after the first week of Sept so I went to check out the condo and…

-Every white wall was now painted avocado green or sky blue
-paint slopped all over the natural wood work
-white paint on exposed wood ceiling beams
-stains on carpet throughout
-punched hole in bedroom wall
-glued something to wall (shelf?) and ripped it off
-left entire lower level smelling like a liter box, tried cleaning but it looks like 360 sq ft of carpet/padding needs replaced
-and condo was just not cleaned in general, except for the fridge and a quick sweep.

They owed me 3 months rent @ 965/mo + 3 late fees @ 25/mo for a total of $2970. I kept their security deposit of $965, but that’s going toward fixing everything they messed up.

So I talked to an attorney who said there’s nothing to do but wait for the bankruptcy case and meeting of the creditors to see if I have a chance of getting any money.

Mid Sept. I had not heard anything from the court, so I asked Bob for the case #. He said he had not been able to afford to file for chapter 7 yet.

I spoke to a different attorney last week and told him the situation and he said I’d go file small claims asap. He said I’m not a secured creditor, so I won’t get shit from the meeting of the creditors. So I did.
Then yesterday I got this email from Bob:

Please don't take this the wrong way because I'm not trying to fight, threaten or argue with you. I feel that it's only fair to at least inform you of what is going on. I have been approved for a chapter 7 bankruptcy where all debts will be discharged. That means your case against me will be thrown out once I file. As for Mike he is still unemployed so even if he didn't attend the hearing and you are granted a judgment it's not worth the paper it's written on. With no income, no real estate or vehicles you can't collect from him. I'm not sure how familiar you are with the law, but it's up to you, not the court to collect and once you locate bank accounts, property or employment you have to pay additional court costs for the court to force a collection and it still doesn't guarantee payment. I tried to explain this to you before so you didn't waste more money on the court filing. Unfortunately, if the case is not dismissed by you by next Monday our attorney will be counter suing you for all the improvements we made to the condo over the past four years that you acknowledged and offered to pay for but we never collected on plus the attroney fees which will be more than your claim. In short if we have to go to court I can guarantee that you won't get anything from us and you will end up oweing us money. As well, we will be filing a discrimination lawsuit against you and the condo association for harassment. Even if a jury doesn't side with us on the discrimination suit you will be out thousands of dollars in legal fees and a couple months of court dates. Our attorney is on retainer so all we would have to pay is court filing fees. I know this situation didn't end to any of our benefit, but I tried to inform you once I knew we couldn't stay and did my best to return the condo in a condition acceptable for immediate renting. I also told you that if you did something like this I would do whatever I needed to protect myself and you would get the short end of the stick. Again, I'm not trying to be an ass, but let's be honest...I paid your costs for 4 years, I took very good care of the condo, short of power washing and a new ac you didn't put a dime into the condo while we were there, and I left the condo ready to rent. I could have complained and demanded many things be fixed, I could have filed bankruptcy and stayed another 60-90 days beyond what we did, and I could have left the condo in shambles that could have cost you thousands of dollars to repair, but I didnt. Again, it wasn't a good ending for any of us, but I did my best to keep you from enduring anymore than what had already happened. You do what you wish with this information. Call my bluff, but I at least did my part in informing you. Eat $2,000 (when you figure in the security deposit you've held for 4 years) because it was a bad situation which I more than paid that in repairs and upgrades over 4 years or we fight it out in court which as I said I can guarantee you that it won't won't end well for you. The ball is in your court. I've asked my attroney to hold off on filing a counter suit until next Monday to give you time if you choose to take it.


The only improvements that come to mind are getting the spring repaired on the garage door and painting the ceiling (at which they did an ok job, slopping minimal white paint on the trim.
He did not leave the condo ready to rent. As soon as I fix everything, I'm listing it for sale anyways- never going through this bs again.

Apparently they are really broke, as I found a disconnect notice form the electric co left on the door for being almost $600 past due.

Mike is not involved in the bankruptcy. And despite not working for a while, I did some digging on social media and found he bought a pre-owned Audi TT in late spring, right before they both went on a cruise. Not sure if he still owns it or not. Not sure where Bob or Mike are living now (they’re partners, so I’m assuming they’re still together since Bob is threatening me and convincing me not to continue the claim, which would only affect Mike after Bob files for bankruptcy.)

I also discovered, while cleaning out some court papers, W2’s etc. that were left in a cabinet, that Mike was sued for $6000+ a few years ago for doing something dishonest under The Norman-Lukanc Farmer's Insurance Agency, which they ran out of their previous apartment.

Since that went down, Bob has started a couple of businesses of his own:
http://start.cortera.com/company/resear ... ar-co-llc/
http://start.cortera.com/company/resear ... -services/ with its own shitty website:
http://professionalfuneralservices.webs.com/

Not sure where Mike works, but one time when I was stopping by to talk to the condo association a couple years back, I saw him get home in a shitty Neon wearing a Sheetz gas station uniform. So I’m guessing he’s worthless financially, until I saw the couple instagram posts with his Audi TT. Who knows.

So I’m out about about $3000, the small claim I filed was only $68. Should I drop the case and give up ever getting any $ from these D-bags through garnishing wages, Or should I keep this going? I'd like to hear your thoughts :)
By dave21H
#349164 i say we hunt them down and kick there faces in
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By Driv-it-hard
#349166 Teal,

I'm a property manager in the state of Florida and I here these things go on all the time with good people like your self. Having to be landlord and being the bad guy is sometime required . Watching out for your investment and your property is a must. I have had the same problem in the past and I have tried to correct this with some measures.
My outcome was not the best. I had to pay the cost of the attorney and fee's to file the suite, at the end I didn't come out with enough to cover much.

1. In the lease, have you attorney put in a clause (depends on your state laws) , if tenant is behind any such period of time, you will being the eviction process and you can have the tenant acknowledge with a signature.
2. Use a private company to screen your applicants. Don't rely on the real estate agent. All they want to do is put a body in your unit.

In regards to your apartment. The time and headache of going to court to fight and trying to recuperate any money might be a lost cause after reading your passage. Hope this helps.

Best of luck.
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By JUICE
#349191 Even if you did win your suit, it'd probably get setup like some bs restitution payments over a couple years. I say chalk it up, especially if they don't have shit anyways..
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By teal_dx
#349192 JUICE, I don't really care if I get $10/wk for the next 6 years until I get paid... $3k is $3k (plus interest). I was super nice to them while they repeatedly lied to me about having sent rent payments. Then I let them stay until the end of Aug and they left the place a mess. The more I think about it, the more it pisses me off.

Driv-it-hard, I'm done renting it out ever again after this mess. I'm fixing it up and selling it.

dave21H = :thumb:

I'm going through about 1000 texts on my phone and making them into a timeline, just to count up how many times they were late/behind over the last couple of years.
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By Driv-it-hard
#349193
JUICE wrote:Even if you did win your suit, it'd probably get setup like some bs restitution payments over a couple years. I say chalk it up, especially if they don't have shit anyways..



That would be a risk that Teal would have to make or consider. If the judge tell Teal that he is only going to $10 bucks a month, thats what he is going to get. He would have really no say on the amount. Judge would look at income.
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By Chance
#350364 wow B... that sucks! one reason why I will never rent property out. people are fucked up.


on another note... I'd break their knee caps with a bat. and probably total their vehicles.
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By Chance
#350365 any update on this situation?
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By teal_dx
#350371 Well, Once Bob files for Chapter 7 Bankruptcy, he's clear of any & all debt owed prior and gets a fresh start, even if I sue after he files. You have to wait 6-7 years before you can file for another one and I'm sure it fucks your credit hard, but it's pretty much a bailout that screws everyone he owes money to.

Both Bob and Mike signed the lease and I put both of their names down when I filed in small claims court. I think that's why he came back so defensive/threatening in his email. Because he knows he's scott free as soon as he files for bankruptcy, but Mike isn't involved in the bankruptcy. The only thing I can possibly see happening is garnishing Mike's minimum wages and being a pain in his ass. Even then, I have read that there are restrictions on the amount you can get when the person you're after isn't making much money.

I found out that Mike has filed BK Chapter 7 in March of 2013. It's something like 6 or 7 years you have to wait before being allowed to file again, so Mike isn't going to get to file like Bob is doing.

Mike's paycheck was more than mine and dude was $50k in debt! These guys are just not good with money.

Then I received a text from Bob,

Image

And assumed it was one last bluff...

Then later that week I got this in the mail:
Image
Image

They are counter suing me for $5k. The attorney is the same one Mike used when he filed CH 7 BK in March 2013.

Akron Small claims court letting me know that my court date on Nov 15th was cancelled because the defendant's counter claim was over $3000, moving the case to be seen in front of a judge.




Here's what I had (with proof) to refute their claims.

1. I looked through the original lease and there is nothing about rent to own. Bob asked how much I would sell the condo for if they wanted to purchase at the end of their lease, in June 2011. I did tell Bob in an email that I'm asking $79.9k for the condo but I would be taking it off the market once he starts renting. Every time the lease was up, they were never in a position to purchase. I have them a price of $73k when their lease was coming to an end in June 2013, reflecting the principal of my mortgage that they had paid over the 3 years, and just to be nice and hopefully sell the place. Money problems for them again, so it didn't happen. I offered the condo to them for $71k in May 2014. (I have everything from this entire paragraph in emails as proof.)

2. I never knew of any of these 'improvements' they did except for finishing painting part of the deck because I ran out of time and they owed me 3 months rent at the time (May, June, July) in 2013. I purchased all of the materials needed and left them there. I offered to take $100 off of their tab for what would have been an hour or two max of their time. They ended up paying back all 3 months of late rent + fees without subtracting the $100 (I have email proof of the deck painting). The ceilings were painted white at some point. Not sure of any other "significant interior repairs" unless they consider the list of things on P.1 of this thread that I had to fix to be "significant interior repairs". The only other significant repair I can think of is that they paid $200 to have the garage door spring repaired. I offered to reimburse them but they said don't worry about it (have proof in email).
The association takes care of all of the landscaping, so that's BS. (I'm sure I can get a copy of the landscaping contract from the association)

3. They said they would be out on September 1, 2014. On the 2nd, they said they weren't done yet. I went out on Friday, the 4th and they still had some stuff there and it was a mess. I asked and Bob said he said Mike was supposed to be done but he would come finish it after work. I went back the following Monday and the had gotten the rest of their stuff out and did a half ass job cleaning. (I have proof of all of #3 in texts.)

4. Yes, I have their security deposit. It would have been equal to them owing me only 2 month's rent instead of 3 month's rent. However, after seeing the condition of the condo, they would not be getting all of that back. Once I receive the debt they owe me, I'll be more than happy to give them back the remainder of their security deposit. It was assumed that I wasn't going to return it to them, as when they were 3 month's behind in summer 2013 and talking about moving out, they offered to let me keep it then as well (have this in email). So of course I am keeping it, in case they screw me over, which they're trying to do.

I did get them to spend $ on an lawyer, but by counter-suing me for $5k, they kind of put me in check because it's out of small claims court now, which means that I would have to hire a lawyer.

So, I spoke to an attorney. He pretty much gave me a reality check. He said I'm going to spend as much on legal fees as I'm going to get if I win the case. And then there's still collecting to deal with. He said their attorney countered for $5k specifically to move the case out of small claims into general court, to screw me into having to pay an attorney. He said this is exactly how deadbeats get by and screw over good people. I either have to go all in now or he said I could call their attorney and see if they want to drop it.
The justice side of my brain wanted to do what's right and screw these guys but the financial side (the side I should listen to) said to give them a call and see if they will drop it.
I can't believe I'm eating the $3k but I've got holidays coming up and I'm already dealing with some other stressful things right now in my life.


So I called their attorney. Said I'd like to discuss dropping the case if your clients are willing. He said "Yep." I didn't say anything because I was thinking that was too easy. Then he followed with "They already discussed it with me upon filing and agreed to drop it if you did."
So I thought for a second... Damn they knew they were full of shit and would have gotten raped in court. I fell right into their trap.

But their attorney handled everything and sent me the papers to sign. I don't have to do anything else. In the end, this whole experience cost me $68 for the initial filing and a little time and I'm sure it cost them more because they used an attorney and a shit load more stress added to their shitty lives.

I can spend my time making that money while working on something I enjoy rather than wasting time on this case.

Oh I found out some interesting info... A friend of a friend knew Mike Lukanc. He is not a US citizen. He is from Lebanon and here because he married a girl and had a kid with her so for him to stay in the country they are still married...but he is gay. :eh:
He was sued by the city of Broaview Hts in 2007, 2009 AND 2012 for not paying his taxes. He ran an insurance company thru Farmers, Norman-Lukanc Insurance Agency, with his partner down here out of their old apartment in Cuyahoga falls around 2007 (He was also evicted in 2007.) When I was cleaning some of their trash out of my condo, I found court papers that he was sued for $6k by Truck Insurance Exchange because he was doing something shady with insurance premiums and hiding it to pocket the $$. The case is still open according to Parma Muni Court... I'm sure he will never pay a dime. That went down in 10 or 11 and was probably the end of their insurance days. After that he was a manager at a 7-11 gas station in Aurora (making $45k/yr) when he filed for Chapter 7 in March 2013. He had nothing to his name, drove a shitty 2000 Neon and was $46k in debt, owing to 34 creditors- many of them collection agencies.
Less than a year after filing for BK, be bought a blue Audi TT convertible, custom plates SAINTX (Something to do with a video game clan he's in.) After they left, I found out he was posting instagram pics of him and his TT while they were behind on rent. They also took a couple vacations together earlier this year.
What a fucking character.
He actually just got a $169 speeding ticket on 9/25/14 in his TT. Good.

If I knew how to talk like an attorney and do all the legal paperwork (or had the $ to hire one) I would have taken these fucks on in court and buried them. Sucks that they're going to become someone else's problem and they will have to go through the same BS that I did with these guys.
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By Chance
#350380 Wow Brian what a buncha cunts! Sucks you're eating the cost.. Fixer up and sell that bitch.
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By FG2_Andrew
#350384 hope they get aids. :thumb:
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By Apexracing
#350875 Jesus Christ man, I would of broken his other leg!
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By ProjectB
#350880 Wow, atleast this is over and done with now. Great story to read but not one id like to be in.
By HeikDiesel
#350882 Why do people have to be pieces of shit now a days. It seems like the "right thing" is unheard of anymore. Thanks for sharing Teal